ClickIncome is scheduled for Las Vegas May8-10. I am signed up for May 10 and thanks for your many thoughts I go armed with the "facts".. Thank You!
Printable View
ClickIncome is scheduled for Las Vegas May8-10. I am signed up for May 10 and thanks for your many thoughts I go armed with the "facts".. Thank You!
Questions:
1. How did you find out about the seminar in Vegas? Was it in the local paper, or did you find it another way?
2. Who is the speaker?
If there is a link to a newspaper article please post it. If it's an "Advertorial" it will probably have a story about a certain individual who has been "successful" that is highlighted... he or she is usually the one who is speaking.
It was in the Las Vegas Review Journal Newspaper for May 3, 2007, page 15A as a full page ad. It doesn't list a speaker but has several stories of people who are successful and one who is making $10k per month. They are offering a free digital camera and 2 CD's in their internet Tool Kit as well. This seminar is offered in 4 locations over the 3 days. The Sandy, UT BBB has some 140 complaints over the last 36 months for this company. It is worth the look. ClickIncome is based out of there.
Is one of the people in the advertorial a guy named Mike Symes? If so he is probably going to be the speaker.
Clickincome is a typical pyramid scheme. They bait you into thinking it is a seminar on making money through Ebay. After you sit through the first day and pay your $99.00 (or whatever it is this week) they bait you to come to the next day's seminar where they will "reveal the secrets of making big $$$". When you go to that seminar you are reeled into the program. The program is that you sign up, give them $4000, sign up for merchant services at exorbatant rates, and scan phish ebay sellers to try to get them to sign up for a "free" website. Once you get a positive response from an ebay seller, they hound the person and, if they sign up for the program, you make a commission. And on, and on it goes.
These guys are good... very good at baiting and enticing you into getting into the program. Be very careful if you go... you might be surprised at how gullible you can be if you are not aware.
Your are correct. The ad has Mike Symes as the lead story saying he is an single father, ebay expert, and making $10k some months. Thanks for the great advice. I ususally leave all my ID and credit cards at home when I attend these events and thus can just walk away saying, sorry I'm ID-less, haven't got any $$/or cards. Later..
See if you can senak in a micro-cassette recorder. They will tell you there is not "videotaping or recording" allowed because, if you sit through both days, you will find that they are teaching people to do (among other things) an end-run around Ebay's policies. They teach you to phish people off of ebay and try to get them to set up a website that will direct customers away from their ebay ad and sell direct off of their own website.
Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but the way that they teach it is, at least on the surface, not ethical. Ebay, for all its ills, is a legitimate business. If you don't think their advertising fees are "fair" you can go somewhere else and advertise your product. To use them by setting up a "faux site" on Ebay and then directing them away from it and never have intent sell items via your listing is, IMO, unethical. I think people should either use Ebay as it was intended or step up to the plate, put your website together, pay for the exposure, and promoto products through it... or a combination thereof. But the way these guys tell you to do it is by side-stepping ebay's policies and doing it "their" way.
Also, if you had a recording of what they say it may very well be useful to others who are putting together a class-action suit. You could remain anonymous, ask for anyone interested to donate to the cost of the tape, and help out others. I wish I would have had mine with me when I went, but I had no idea what I was in for. Fortunately I am out of it (at least for now) and don't expect any further repercussions, but others may not be so fortunate.
I actually left my wallet in the car when I went in... unfortunately my wife was with me and she had her wallet and checkbook, and we fell for it anyway. I would leave your credit cards, checkbook, and everything except your driver's license home when I went if I were you... like I said, these guys are VERY good.
What if, say, someone did get baited & hooked, and it's been 6 months with no working website and no sales? Does that person have any options?
The person I refer to is already mortally embarrassed after reading this whole thread and wishes he had some more thorough research.
Hi, Dreamweaver,Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamweaver
My take on the slimebag's reply is that he's pissed off that he lost a commission and, just for sour grapes, is trying to subtly imply/threaten that your cancellation won't be processed. As for the remark about your lawyer needing to be wealthy (as though he's going to sue him, but notice he didn't even ask your lawyer's name), he's just blowing smoke because he's mad that a lawyer talked you through the right steps. The remark about him being wealthier than the lawyers in his town is just to make you have second thoughts about cancellation - in other words, you lost out on a chance to become as wealthy as he is by cancelling.
The whole reply is just lashing out. It should be a reminder of what calculating, unprofessional scumbags you narrowly avoided. Was this the reply of a business professional? Of course not. It's a no-brainer that a professional, honest business person would never reply in such a way. I wouldn't let it worry me if I were you.
I strongly urge you and your wife to never, ever sign up for one of these things again, no matter how good it sounds. NEVER! It's a sting operation and many honest, trusting people have been seriously damaged and even bankrupted by these kinds of operations. The operators of these ventures are extremely nasty vultures and they play hardball from the minute you show up. You are a "mark" to them. They are grifters in the extreme.
Let us know if you escaped cleanly or if they still managed to get a hook into you. Did you get your certified mail cards back signed as delivery accepted?
Actually, Clickincome is a sting operation, not a pyramid. Yes, there's the suggestion of a pyramid in there, but you may or may not ever get paid the commission and you may or may not ever find out if the person you phished from Ebay ever signed up. The thing is, if you pay Clickincome $4k and you phish somebody that signs up for the $99pm website, how many commissions will it take for you to earn back your $4k plus all the other stuff they charge your credit cards for each month? Right off the bat they hook people for the $99pm and talk them out of using Paypal for their drop-shipping orders of the overpriced crap in their supposed warehouse (that everybody else is trying to sell on the websites that may or may not ever materialize) in order to get them to sign up for their grossly overpriced merchant account. That's a sting.Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamweaver
By the way, neither the merchant accounts nor the websites belong to the signees/lessees. They're actually leased and you, the signee/lessee, can be shut out of them at any time anyway. Also, just logging onto your leased site is deemed as acknowledgment of their fee increases, too.
It just goes on and on. It's really, really ugly, and a whole lot nastier than an old-fashioned pyramid scheme. :eek:
Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,
Pakistan Property | Wholesale Suppliers
Wholesale Canadian Directory | All UK Wholesalers
I went to a "training" seminar in McAllen TX on Friday, 6/22/07. The speaker was Michael Syme, a single father from Utah who was promoted as being the "#1 Seller on Ebay" according to my 16 year old brother. See http://www.keystomakingmoney.com/bio.html.
I attended the seminar at the request of my father who for years has been interested in making money on Ebay. He and my brother attended the first seminar 2 days prior to the Friday seminar. Just before the Friday seminar my father showed me the paperwork he has signed at the end of the Wed seminar.
He had 2 contracts. One labeled a "Non-Cancelable Installment Contract" with Aria Financial Corp. in which he was to pay $2,000 over a 36 month period at an interest rate of 18%. The monthly charge was going to be $69.95 a month for 3 years. The contract describes the services purchased as an "E-commerce Integration Package. Includes: Merchant Reseller Program, Merchant Account Application, Virtual Terminal License, Virtual Terminal Setup, Virtual Terminal Integration with Merchant Account and Virtual Terminal Integratioin with E-commerce Website"
The second contract was labeled "Merchant Application and Agreement" and was with Cardservice International. It listed a "Monthly Account Fee" for $19.95 a month and a "Montly LinkPoint Secure Payment Gateway Fee" for $20.00 a month. The service rendered was the ability to process credit card payments. In addition to the monthly charges there was a charge for each credit card transaction. The Qualified Rate was 2.39% per transaction. The higher, Non-Qualified rate was 1.95% + $.13 per transaction. However, the contract does not state the difference between which transactions are qualified and which are non-qualified.
After reading through the contracts I quickly advised my father to cancel both agreements. The $2,000 "Non-cancellable Installment Contract" was complete bogus. Most of those services, such as a Virtual Terminal, are included with merchant services programs. Other charges were completely made up. There is no such thing as a Virtual Terminal License and anyone who pays $2,000 to file an application (Merchant Account Application) is surely being taken for a ride.
Additionally, both contracts were completely one-sided basically eliminating all of the consumer's rights to sue while completely holding the company not liable for any damages.
For example, here are a few provisions under the Merchant Application and Agreement:
13.1 IN NO EVENT SHALL EITHER PARTY, OR THEIR AFFILIATES OR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS OR SUBCONTRACTORS, BE LIABLE UNDER ANY THEORY OF TORT, CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHER LEGAL THEORY FOR LOST PROFITS, LOST REVENUES, LOST BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, EACH OF WHICH IS HEREBY EXCLUDED BY AREEMENT OF THE PARTIES, REGRADLESS OF WHETHER THE DAMAGES WERE FORESEEABLE OR WHETHER ANY PARTY OF ANY ENTITY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
13.2 ...OUR CUMULATIVE LIABILITY FOR ALL LOSSES, CLAIMS, SUITS, CONTROVERSIES, BREACHES OR DAMAGES FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THOSE ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS AGREEMENT) AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF ACTION OR LEGAL THEORY SHALL NOT EXCEED, (I) $50,000; OR (II) THE AMOUNT OF FEES RECEIVED BY US PURSUANT TO THE AGREEMENT FOR SERVICES PERFORMED IN THE TWELVE (12) MONTHS, WHICHEVER IS LESS.
26. ALL PARTIES IRREVOCABLY WAIVE ANY AND ALL RIGHTS THEY MAY HAVE TO A TRIAL BY JURY IN ANY JUDICIAL PROCEEDING INVOLVING ANY CLAIM RELATING TO OR ARISING UNDER THIS MERCHANT AGREEMENT OR THE SERVICES PROVIDED BY US.
Here is an amazingly one-sided provision under the "Non-Cancellable Installment Contract" under "Other Contract Terms and Conditions":
22. ... I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO ENFORCE THE CONTRACT AGAINST ME WITHOUT MY ASSERTING OR CLAIMING ANY DEFENSE, OFFSETS, OR COUNTERCLAIMS.
Even if the service were valid I would never allow a client to sign ANY contract with those provisions. You are basically elimiating all our your rights to sue if anything goes wrong.
After I reviewed the contracts and advised my father to cancel them immediately we then attended the Friday training seminar with Michael Syme. Michael did a great job of promising easy money by working only 8-7 hours a week at home. He claimed that one could easily make $10,000 a month. He also repeatedly promised that in 6 months our financial situation would change.
The seminar was a powerpoint presentation showing his method of developing multiple streams of income from Ebay. As mentioned by previous posters the entire system is a method for subverting Ebay by diverting Ebay's customers from Ebay and directing them to your ClickIncome hosted website and encouraging others to do the same.
In fact, Michael Syme made Ebay sound very unprofitable and discouraged it's use. He said Ebay is not a place to get top dollar for goods. That it has, in fact, become a giant wholeseller. He even mentioned one example where he purchased an Eric Clapton signed guitar for $3250 on Ebay and turned around and sold it through a memorabilia magazine for $38,000.
Michael Symes is not promoting Ebay, he's suggesting ways to undermine it.
Here are the 5 streams of income using Ebay that Michael Symes promoted:
1.) Selling directly on Ebay
2.) Selling from your own website to people you solicit off Ebay
3.) Receiveing $600 from ClickIncome for each person you refer who signs up for the Non-Cancellable Installment Contract. ($70 /mo x 36 months)
4.) Receiving $450 from ClickIncome for each person you refer who purchases a webhosting service.
5.) Selling the "ClickIncome's Search Engine Magic" CD for $99. You download the program and burn, print and mail a cd to customers. But first you must purchase the copyright for $300.
I found their prices overblown. The $2,000 E-commerce integration package was bogus. The merchant services agreement at $40.00 was twice as expensive as anything the local banks offer. The webhosting prices were outrageous. The Executive package which has 4,000 email address and 10,000 email messages a month cost $2,500 a year!
At the end of the evening they wanted everyone to sign up as an Executive. As a ClickIncome Executive you would get to print out business cards which said you were an executive for ClickIncome and you would get a totebag. The cost....$5,000.
Of course, to entice us to become an Executive, they offered to waive the $2,000 Non-Cancelable Installment Contract, the $2,500 Executive webhosting package, the $300 copyright for the "Search Engine Magic" cd.... all for only $4000 if we signed up that moment.
My father and I got up and walked straight out the door and I saw many others follow us.
I'm a former employee of Clickincome, Inc. whose parent company is Pangaea Group, Inc. out of Sandy, Utah. They have sister companies such as World Net Services, Aria Financial / Mortgage Services, Argos Technologies, and Elite Marketing Systems / EMSUT who has changed their name to Evolution Management Systems -- you can look it all up at:
https://secure.utah.gov/bes/action/index
and
http://www.sandy.utah.gov/UpDownload...by-titleA.html
Sometimes Clickincome is referred to as "Click Income" but Clickincome is how it's spelled on the state records.
I worked there from approximately March 23, 2004 through August 25, 2005.
Here are some suggestions ordered by importance:
#1 - no matter what company it is, always try to work out the problem with them first!
Don't go making a formal complaint unless you've first exhausted trying to work things out with them. Be willing to listen to them with your heart and at the same time don't compromise on true principles.
At the same time, never, never accept signing a gag order. Only justices of the public courts should make gag orders.
Our credit records are out there for 7 years and a company should be held accountable for mistakes for a certain period of time until
they can show a clean record for at least a couple of years. Resolving concerns with a public company is different than resolving concerns privately with a friend.
#2 - If the above doesn't work after a reasonable amount of time, then contact the Utah Division of Consumer Protection.
Here's their complaint form:
http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/e...complaint.html
After you mail or fax the complaint form, then call them to follow up at (801)530-6601.
#3 - If you feel that you were lied to or exaggerated to, then you can always hire a consumer advocate -- I recommend Carl Shoolman of CX.org.
He is very tenacious on getting a resolution without a gag order. He does not sell out and his fee is $43 plus no more than 10% of your refund but it can be as low as 5%.
http://cx.org
#4 - File a complaint with the FTC -- http://ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
#5 - Contact the BBB -- http://www.utah.bbb.org/
+++UPDATE: I believe that Clickincome is better now than they were 2 years ago. You really should give them the opportunity to fix things first in a timely manner before having a knee jerk reaction and assuming the worst.
I know from talking recently with their manager Troy Stevens that they have been firing their unscrupulous sales guys -- they are trying to clean house and I give them credit for that.
They still have a ways to go though to be excellent but they're trying.
+++
Sincerely, a concerned citizen and brother,
Roger L. Brown
http://downtownweb.com
P.S. Happy Independence Day! :)
What exactly is clickincome? Are they just another comp shop?
www.zenmonster.com
No, but there are a couple of different meanings of "comp" shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by slabeye
It seems like they are a business opportunity / web hosting / merchant account provider / web education company.
They run seminars about eBay and making money through the Internet -- their ads in newspapers look a lot like this website of theirs:
http://www.keystomakingmoney.com/
In their newspaper ads they'll show pictures with testimonials from other people too. One of the people in a past ad in 2006 was a coworker that i mentored -- in other words one of the testimonials in an old ad was from an employee of Clickincome -- Michael Clark.
Peace out,
Roger Brown
I have just followed your advice having been jerked around by clickincome for two years now. Thanks for the tidbits.. you have anything more. I would love to communicate directly.