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Thread: Netsuite's SB functionality as a POS sytem

  1. #16
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    Jazzcat,

    Thanks for the positive words. It is highly appreciated!



    Sincerely,

    Gary

  2. #17
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    Eh... "why can't we all get along...?"

    You sound like a typical biased open-source advocate. I appreciate and respect the position those such as yourselves take. Can you see the other side of the coin? NetSuite's support is awesome (and yes, it costs a lot). They version up faster than almost any other product I've seen (they can afford to due to their high fees ). Integration between 2 or more mature products is never as smooth of a solution as a same-branded ERP product such as NetSuite and has a steep learning curve for individuals as they understand how to use each piece of the puzzle. NetSuite doesn't compromise their product and dilute their business model by letting anybody with a P3 server running off of DSL to host their app.

    Their are pros and cons to every solution, but, the MARKET decides who succeeds and who doesn't. If they charge more than they're worth - they WILL lose customers. Right now, NetSuite is leading the SaaS market regardless of cost.

    CAn I ask you something - have you ever seen NetSuite applied to a business in terms of CRM, SFA, Accoutning, Payroll, Bill Pay, eCommerce - almost every aspect? It is a beautful thing and is worth its weight in gold to a happenign business. What they've done with the app is tremendous.



    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcat
    Hi Geoff,

    The prices you see give you hosting and support. If you are a small business owner that can carefully read directions, you can download the free version and install it on a $10/month webhosting account. That'll give you many useful features, and the only thing missing will be the more advanced reports (if I remember right, from the last time I looked at SugarCRM). If you are a systems integrator or VAR, you can download the free version and make money on training or selling a hosted SugarCRM service (again, from a $10/month webhosting account or your own servers).

    You are correct in that it's not a full ERP solution, it's more comparable to Salesforce.COM. However, with the mature Open Source accounting packages (vis-a-vis Quasar Accounting at http://www.linuxcanada.com), a competent developer could integrate the two in a couple of weeks' worth of work and then have something comparable to Interprise or NetSuite, at zero cost. But, you make an interesting point:



    Larry Ellison? Didn't he have more than 1.7 billion dollars in personal debt at one point? In any case: maybe I'm new here, but I don't understand why a VAR would base their livelihood on something they can't fix, support, or upgrade themselves. While it may be easy money, it also ties you to the 'parent company', in this case NetSuite or SAP. If the 'parent company' decides that it needs to make a boat payment and increase next year's license fees by 100% (without providing any additional value), it can do so and your customers have no recourse except to pay the additional fees if they want to continue using the software. This is not a free market at work, it's an anticompetitive economic hack.

    A key economic point: software companies need artificial scarcity to continue deriving income from their various sources. In a true free market, I doubt prices would be as high as they are for these products, and software companies would be unable to increase their license fees simply because they want to.

    I think one of the best examples of free market in action I've seen (besides the Open Source offerings) is Interprise Suite, as Gary has priced his product very competitively - much closer to its true worth than NetSuite / SAP. He also gives his customers an excellent sense of security by giving the source code to paying customers. Would you ever get that with NetSuite or SAP? Interprise is the best "open source lookalike" I've seen, with the software company being able to make money and still provide real value. The only issue I have with Interprise is that it's based on Windows, so support costs for installations are higher than they would be otherwise (to maintain and patch the operating system, database, purchase licenses for OS and database, etc) and it's very hard to guarantee any semblance of security. But that's a discussion for another day...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Scott
    CAn I ask you something - have you ever seen NetSuite applied to a business in terms of CRM, SFA, Accoutning, Payroll, Bill Pay, eCommerce - almost every aspect? It is a beautful thing and is worth its weight in gold to a happenign business. What they've done with the app is tremendous.
    Wow Geoff,

    Your much happier than all the Netsuite users and resellers i talk to each week.

    Netsuite has pretty much had the entire ERP over the web market to themselves over the past 5 years. It will be interesting to see how fast they grow as competitors start coming in.

    How much of their sales growth do you think is coming from the fact that they have been raising the fees to users so much each year (latest increase from $399/mo first user to $999/mo first user) and SaaS applications are very difficult to migrate away from.

    Sincerely,

    Gary

    I find this to be typical from the people i talk to http://crm.ittoolbox.com/groups/vend...se-crm-1121335

  4. #19
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    Hi Geoff,

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Scott
    Eh... "why can't we all get along...?"
    I don't see why we can't all get along; but getting along isn't contrary to what we're doing here. This is a forum for small business managers to get help and have questions answered, and that's what we're doing... but the problem is that our answers don't quite jive with your sales goals.

    You sound like a typical biased open-source advocate. I appreciate and respect the position those such as yourselves take. Can you see the other side of the coin?
    Sure! That's what I'm doing, looking at things holistically. You see, the software market as it exists today isn't a "free market", nowhere close. It's what I'd call (for lack of a better term) a 'sticky market', where clients do not have Perfect Liberty (see Adam Smith) to switch vendors where they otherwise would.

    For example: suppose I am a plumbing outfit, and I purchase Ford trucks for my plumbers. If I find that Ford trucks are unreliable, and Ford doesn't fix them (or Ford decides to increase my lease payments from $250 to $1000 per truck), I can get rid of those trucks and buy Dodge trucks instead. Dodge trucks drive the same, and take the same accessories. That's a free market.

    If I buy a software package, and the vendor refuses to give me the source code or easy access to my data at any time, then migration to a different package is difficult. Open Source software, and commercial software companies that understand how a free market works - like Gary Harrisson's - give clients a truly level playing field (free market), as the clients could easily move to a new product if the current one does not satisfy its needs or is defective in some other way (or if the company behaves badly).

    A good example is RedHat: in the first quarter of 2006, they brought in $84 million in revenues on a product that you can download for free. If RedHat behaves badly, customers will simply download the free version (that behaves exactly like the real RedHat version) or utilize other resources.

    With companies such as NetSuite and Microsoft, customers can't switch to another vendor because the current vendor makes it difficult to do so (thus removing the customer's Perfect Liberty, and disobeying the laws of the free market).

    NetSuite's support is awesome (and yes, it costs a lot). They version up faster than almost any other product I've seen (they can afford to due to their high fees ).
    Geoff, thanks for illustrating my point so elegantly. Current customers of NetSuite may not need those new versions, and yet they are compelled to pay the higher price or stop using the software (and risk loosing their valuable data). The new version provides no additional value. Tell me, Jeff, in what kind of free market are customers compelled to pay additional sums of money for which they derive no additional value?

    Integration between 2 or more mature products is never as smooth of a solution as a same-branded ERP product such as NetSuite and has a steep learning curve for individuals as they understand how to use each piece of the puzzle.
    While I'll give you the learning curve, the integration issue may or may not be real, depending on the integrators and products being integrated. In my 'day job' I've been doing integration for many years, not only between disparate apps but disparate companies. Again, it all boils down to value: do two lower-priced integrated products give better value than one higher-priced one? In many cases, the answer is yes.

    Cheers,
    -Josh

  5. #20
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    Thumbs up My 2 cents

    Sorry I was away trying to ramp up my sales for 4th qtr .... let me try to catch up here ...

    Well NetSuite is not a good fit for POS application ... If NetSuite has any weakness then it has to be POS integration apart from price and server based ...

    Now if you want an all-in-one software I would defintely address 3 software vendors that fit your requirements ...

    Interprise Suite - Integrated, very affordable prices
    Everest Software - Integrated, roboust but pricey
    NetSuite (considering POS beta) - Integrated, POS yet to go live and pricey

    Regd Opensource stay away from it unless you have a developer inhouse ready to manage the apps or if you work with some good resellers ... If you are not looking for integrated software then your scope becomes broad and your search for software is never ending while you try to figure out the best integrated way that fits the budget...

  6. #21
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    Very well put. Question: Let's say the to-be released POS app works well with NetSuite - how would you then compare NetSuite vs. Interprise and Everest? I've heard mixed things about Everest (obviously, same thing could be said about NetSuite) - I have zero experience with Interprise. Is NetSuite superior except for POS which remains to be seen? Is POS the only questionable factor here?

    Quote Originally Posted by InfoSourcing
    Sorry I was away trying to ramp up my sales for 4th qtr .... let me try to catch up here ...

    Well NetSuite is not a good fit for POS application ... If NetSuite has any weakness then it has to be POS integration apart from price and server based ...

    Now if you want an all-in-one software I would defintely address 3 software vendors that fit your requirements ...

    Interprise Suite - Integrated, very affordable prices
    Everest Software - Integrated, roboust but pricey
    NetSuite (considering POS beta) - Integrated, POS yet to go live and pricey

    Regd Opensource stay away from it unless you have a developer inhouse ready to manage the apps or if you work with some good resellers ... If you are not looking for integrated software then your scope becomes broad and your search for software is never ending while you try to figure out the best integrated way that fits the budget...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfoSourcing
    Regd Opensource stay away from it unless you have a developer inhouse ready to manage the apps or if you work with some good resellers ... If you are not looking for integrated software then your scope becomes broad and your search for software is never ending while you try to figure out the best integrated way that fits the budget...
    InfoSourcing,

    On what evidence do you base such ambiguous statements? The last statement ("search for software is never ending") is more a symptom of undisciplined business practices than a symptom of trying to find two products to integrate. It's basic management 101: for any given business need, you find a package that works; if the need includes integration, you include the "integratibility" or cost to hire someone to integrate when you run the numbers. You run the numbers, and then 'pull the trigger' on the numbers that look good. A neverending search for software can occur when looking for commercial software, or open source....

    While you do have a point - for example, I wouldn't advise Bob the Plumber to download the Compiere CRM system, or try to integrate it with Quasar Accounting, unless he enjoys playing with technology - there are many cases where you don't require "a developer inhouse" or resellers.

    For example: a manager in my homeowner's association was having problems with Word locking up Windows XP. Therefore, I burned a CD with OpenOffice, had her install it, and the problems went away. The manager could still read all her documents; and the interfaces are close enough, and the application is good enough, that in this case Open Source worked wonderfully for a small business.

    Cheers,
    -Josh

  8. #23
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    OnSite's POS System

    Saw a demo today... fantastic. Just what NetSuite needs. Opens up the retail market to NetSuite for sure. I'll let you guys know how it works out - my NetSuite consulting customer should be live on it within a few weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfoSourcing
    Sorry I was away trying to ramp up my sales for 4th qtr .... let me try to catch up here ...

    Well NetSuite is not a good fit for POS application ... If NetSuite has any weakness then it has to be POS integration apart from price and server based ...

    Now if you want an all-in-one software I would defintely address 3 software vendors that fit your requirements ...

    Interprise Suite - Integrated, very affordable prices
    Everest Software - Integrated, roboust but pricey
    NetSuite (considering POS beta) - Integrated, POS yet to go live and pricey

    Regd Opensource stay away from it unless you have a developer inhouse ready to manage the apps or if you work with some good resellers ... If you are not looking for integrated software then your scope becomes broad and your search for software is never ending while you try to figure out the best integrated way that fits the budget...

  9. #24
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    Crazy...

    I can see it now - the internet goes down and all the customer standing on line.

    Sounds silly to me.

    Sincerely,
    ----------------------------
    Gary Harrison
    Interprise Solutions

  10. #25
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    Yes - we did go over this.
    A suggested solution was to purchase a low-cost (few hundred dollars) failover device and buy a low-cost backup line. If Cable/T1 is primary, failover to DSL.
    It is certainly not for all... it does have some serious pros though. Like any product, there are some cons. Depends what your net-needs are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Harrison
    I can see it now - the internet goes down and all the customer standing on line.

    Sounds silly to me.

    Sincerely,

  11. #26
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    Question: does interprise have a POS solution? The product looks interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Harrison
    I can see it now - the internet goes down and all the customer standing on line.

    Sounds silly to me.

    Sincerely,

  12. #27
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    Thumbs up My 2 cents abt searching for the right software

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcat
    InfoSourcing,

    On what evidence do you base such ambiguous statements? The last statement ("search for software is never ending") is more a symptom of undisciplined business practices than a symptom of trying to find two products to integrate. It's basic management 101: for any given business need, you find a package that works; if the need includes integration, you include the "integratibility" or cost to hire someone to integrate when you run the numbers. You run the numbers, and then 'pull the trigger' on the numbers that look good. A neverending search for software can occur when looking for commercial software, or open source....

    While you do have a point - for example, I wouldn't advise Bob the Plumber to download the Compiere CRM system, or try to integrate it with Quasar Accounting, unless he enjoys playing with technology - there are many cases where you don't require "a developer inhouse" or resellers.

    For example: a manager in my homeowner's association was having problems with Word locking up Windows XP. Therefore, I burned a CD with OpenOffice, had her install it, and the problems went away. The manager could still read all her documents; and the interfaces are close enough, and the application is good enough, that in this case Open Source worked wonderfully for a small business.

    Cheers,
    -Josh
    Josh/Jazzcat - Firstly I advise you to ask your concerns/questions politely and not to user terms like "ambigous statementm etc" coz there is a reason why I suggested that it would be "never ending search" from a business owner perspective.

    This forum is dedicated towards small and medium bussiness, a business ower can benefit in learning while they are searching/looking for their next business software. We have been constantly evolving from day one as humans and last 10-15 yrs software has also evolved, so I don't have to answer that

    Now with regards to business software, a business owner can spend only so much of time in figuring our what fits their business model and budget, keeping this in mind solution providers/resellers/VAR's or direct sales should always respect that time and budget factor of the consumer and direct them towards the best product that is available in the market.

    I might not be right but neither am I'm wrong if I suggest/recommend Interprise Suite/NetSuite/Everest for ERP for SMB (Small and Medium business). depending on their needs and budget.

    I would be more than happy to review other product (out of the box) and provide feedback to prospects/suspects/customers.

    Geff - Yes Interprise is currently integrating POS system into their Interprise Suite and most likely will be released in 2007. (not sure of specific dates)

    Again the market is evolving and ERP is spreading too fast and furious to accomodate more features to business owners, is too much too bad? I don't know but for now small business are looking for out of the box product, which can do Inventory, CRM, Accounting, E-Commerce, POS etc and again at any point of time "one product does fit all" and there could be customizations/tailoring that we might have to do, but the core functionality has to exists and one shouldn't look/search for finding those core funtionalities - search is never ending but search smarter is the answer.

  13. #28
    InfoSourcing -

    What is your definition of SMB? Microsoft talks about SMB having fewer than 50 PCs. IBM pegs it at 100 to 1,000 employees, Oracle at $500 million or less. But what about the one-person-part-time companies, and those with up to 10 or 15 employees? Those are the guys who are using osCommerce, MonsterCommerce, Miva Merchant, Yahoo!Store and similar systems, and apparently they are too small to even be called "small". Yet those are the kind of people who are much more likely to be reading a forum like this one, and I don't know about Interprise Suite, but NetSuite and Everest are totally inappropriate for companies like that. They need tools that are designed for the way they do business, and priced within their budgets.

    Barney Stone
    Stone Edge Technologies, Inc.

  14. #29
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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Scott
    Question: does interprise have a POS solution? The product looks interesting.
    Hi Geoff,

    Yes, Premier POS is redeveloping their application to the connected business platform (the technical foundation of interprise suite). They have over 10 years of experience in the point of sale market with thousands of customers.

    Sincerely,
    ----------------------------
    Gary Harrison
    Interprise Solutions

  15. #30
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    May 2004
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    174
    Barney, you make an excellent point. The term "small business" is a huge umbrella that covers a huge variety of companies. The SBA defines a small business as anywhere between sole proprietor to 500 employeess...and as you note, different vendors have their own definitions (though who could ever think 1,000 employees constitutes small is beyond me).

    It also covers a huge range of industries, too. The technical needs of a florist with three employees are so different from say, a law firm with three employees.

    Anyone who serves the tech needs of "small business" needs to be able to help that small business owner define his or her tech needs in terms of industry and size -- and do so in business terms, not tech jargon.

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